The Journey Back – Turning Away from Extremism and the Road to Hope and Healing

ICSVE Panel Discussion featuring

Jeff Schoep, Former Leader National Socialist Movement

Daryl Davis, Counter-radicalization and Race Relations Specialist 

Jesse Morton, former Jihadist Extremist

Anne Speckhard, Director ICSVE

11:00 AM EST 

January 6, 2020  

Since May of 2020, the International Center for the Study of Violent Extremism (ICSVE) has been hosting regular virtual panel discussions focusing on trajectories in and out of militant jihadist terrorism. Speakers have included prison officials and community leaders who run successful programs for preventing and countering violent extremism, and many more, as well as former militant jihadists speaking about their experiences. On December 16^th, ICSVE announced that it will now expand to apply and expand its methodology and efforts so that they cover the threat posed by far-right wing extremism as well in a virtual panel featuring former jihadist Jesse Morton, former far-right wing extremist Ryan Lo’ree, and counter-radicalization and race relations specialist Daryl Davis. On January 6th, we welcomed a continuation of that discourse, this time including former far-right violent extremist Jeff Schoep, who will share his trajectory into and out of far-right wing extremism. 

Jeff was once the “commander” of the National Socialist Movement (NSM), once the largest neo-Nazi organization in America. For 28 years, Jeff stood at the helm of the organization and was one of the most notorious far-right leaders in the country. Then, in late 2019, Jeff announced publicly that he had left the movement. Jeff will speak about his trajectory into the National Socialist Movement and his rise to a position of power within it. He will speak about the difficulties of leaving, the public’s response, and the continuing challenges of deradicalization. This event was an important opportunity to compare and contrast the dynamics of militant jihadist and far-right violent extremism and to have an honest conversation about the circuitous process of leaving these groups, which can come to dominate an individual’s entire life and livelihood.

Jeff was joined by Daryl Davis, who shared about how his interactions with Jeff when he was still the leader of NSM helped to humanize black people and make him question his beliefs.  Likewise, former jihadist propagandist Jesse Morton, who supported Jeff as he left the movement, spoke about the long road out of violent extremist groups and how interventions must distinguish between disengagement and deradicalization, as well as how radicalization can function like an addiction, masking deeper concerns that need to be addressed in order to fully recover.

After Jeff, Daryl, and Jesse spoke, attendees had the opportunity to ask questions and engage in a productive discussion, as we have done over the past months. 

Jeff Schoep is now after years of leading the National Socialist Movement, working as an international extremism consultant, human rights activist and public speaker. While working to remediate his past life, he has dedicated himself to promote peace building and, in this role,, Jeff helps to educate communities and policy makers on the threat of white supremacism and how to effectively both counter and prevent violent extremism. From 1994 until early 2019 Jeff Schoep was the was the leader of the largest neo-Nazi organization in the United States, the National Socialist Movement (NSM). In early 2019, Jeff retired from the NSM and walked away from the white nationalist movement in its entirety.  After wrestling with his conscience, over how to best set things right, Jeff realized that he could not just sit back while the world continues to burn in the flames of hatred. Instead of remaining silent, he decided to speak out and help others. It is now Jeff’s mission to be a positive, peaceful influence of change and understanding for all of humanity in these uncertain times. In January of 2020, Jeff Schoep founded Beyond Barriers, a non-profit organization dedicated to helping people leave extremist organizations as well as providing support and connections to individuals and communities affected by extremism. Jeff now uses his past experience and insights to help combat and prevent violent extremism. In addition to public speaking, he also provides consulting services and leadership skills trainings.

Daryl Davis is not white. He’s not even light-skinned. Make no mistake about it; he’s black. Yet, Klan-Destine Relationships author, Daryl Davis has come in closer contact with members of the Ku Klux Klan than most whites and certainly most blacks — short of being on the wrong end of a rope. What’s more? He continues to do so, making him one of the most unique lecturers on the speaking circuit today. Over the past two decades, Daryl Davis walked on the edge with one foot dangling over the precipice. His nonfiction stories of setting up surprise meetings with Klan leaders who were unaware of his skin color, and attending Klan rallies, has the suspense of Hitchcock, keeping audiences riveted to their seats in disbelief. On a quest to do nothing more than explore racism and gather information for his book, Klan-Destine Relationships, Daryl Davis eventually became the recipient of numerous robes and hoods given to him by KKK members who rescinded their beliefs after coming to know him. He had inadvertently stumbled upon a successful method of forming friendships between sworn enemies. His methods have made him the center of controversy in some circles where he is considered “politically incorrect,” but after proving his methods work, he has made supporters out of his detractors. As a race relations expert, Daryl Davis has received acclaim for his book, Klan-Destine Relationships and his work in race relations from many respected sources including CNN, NBC, Good Morning America, The Learning Channel, National Public Radio, The Washington Post, The Baltimore Sun and many others. He is also the recipient of numerous awards including the highly prestigious Elliott-Black Award and the Bridge Builder Award presented by the American Ethical Union and Washington Ethical Society respectively, to name a few. Filled with exciting encounters and sometimes amusing anecdotes, Daryl Davis’ impassioned lectures leave an audience feeling empowered to confront their own prejudices and overcome their fears, seeking to build a bridge and forge peace with their most unlikely adversaries.

Jesse Morton, ICSVE Senior Researcher and Practitioner, was once a jihadist propagandist (then known as Younes Abdullah Muhammad) who ran Revolution Muslim, a New York City-based organization active in the 2000s and connected to a number of terrorism cases. He connected al-Qaeda’s ideology and transformed it for America, creating English language propaganda and collaborating with the most notorious jihadist preachers of that era. Morton deradicalized in 2011, following his arrest in Casablanca and then incarceration in the U.S. Since then, he has worked to become a leading commentator and researcher on jihadist, far-right and far-left extremism and reciprocal radicalization. He is also one of the world’s most prominent preventing and countering violent extremism practitioners. Before joining ICSVE, Morton ran Parallel Networks, an organization he co-founded with Mitch Silber, the former NYPD official that monitored and ultimately incarcerated him. Parallel Networks consulted on international projects with a particular concentration on the reintegration and rehabilitation of terrorism-related offenders and foreign terrorist fighters and their family members and combating the transnational jihadist movement. Additionally, Morton also led Parallel Networks’ Light Upon Light project, an off and online ecosystem of holistic programming that utilizes a unique transdisciplinary approach to combat polarization, hate and far-right, far-left jihadist extremism and targeted violence in the American ambit. Light Upon Light programming works holistically to offer an antithetical sense of identity, purpose, and community to that which extremists offer their recruits. Parallel Networks and the Light Upon Light project will now merge and serve as ICSVE subsidiaries through which Morton will blend the parallel networks philosophy to ICSVE’s methodology and expand ICSVE’s research and programming to address domestic radicalization and extremism. Over past years, Jesse has served as a deradicalization interventionist in an array of capacities and has working to pull over 100 individuals from an array of movements and ideologies out of extremism. He has published and presented at New America Foundation, the Institute for Strategic Dialogue, United States Institute for Peace, Alliance for Peacebuilding, the Antidefamation League (ADL), CTC Sentinel, Lawfare, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, New York Times, New York Post and other outlets. Morton was included in Foreign Policy Magazine’s 2017 ‘Global Thinkers’ listing, holds certificate licensure in substance-abuse and mental health counseling, is widely read in Islamic theology and jurisprudence, has lectured at Imam Muhammad ibn Saud University in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia and Sunderland University in Casablanca, Morocco and is a certified substance abuse and mental health counselor in New York State with a bachelor’s degree in human service and master’s in international relations, Middle East studies and nonprofit management from Columbia University.

Dr. Anne Speckhard is Director of the International Center for the Study of Violent Extremism (ICSVE) and serves as an Adjunct Associate Professor of Psychiatry at Georgetown University School of Medicine. She has interviewed over 700 terrorists, their family members and supporters in various parts of the world including in Western Europe, the Balkans, Central Asia, the Former Soviet Union and the Middle East. In the past five years years, she has interviewed 258 ISIS defectors, returnees and prisoners  as well as 16 al Shabaab cadres and their family members (n=25) as well as ideologues (n=2), studying their trajectories into and out of terrorism, their experiences inside ISIS (and al Shabaab), as well as developing the Breaking the ISIS Brand Counter Narrative Project materials from these interviews which includes over 200 short counter narrative videos of terrorists denouncing their groups as un-Islamic, corrupt and brutal which have been used in over 150 Facebook and Instagram campaigns globally. She has also been training key stakeholders in law enforcement, intelligence, educators, and other countering violent extremism professionals, both locally and internationally, on the psychology of terrorism, the use of counter-narrative messaging materials produced by ICSVE as well as studying the use of children as violent actors by groups such as ISIS.  Dr. Speckhard has given consultations and police trainings to U.S., German, UK, Dutch, Austrian, Swiss, Belgian, Danish, Iraqi, Jordanian and Thai national police and security officials, among others, as well as trainings to elite hostage negotiation teams. She also consults to foreign governments on issues of terrorist prevention and interventions and repatriation and rehabilitation of ISIS foreign fighters, wives and children. In 2007, she was responsible for designing the psychological and Islamic challenge aspects of the Detainee Rehabilitation Program in Iraq to be applied to 20,000 + detainees and 800 juveniles. Her publications are found here: https://georgetown.academia.edu/AnneSpeckhardWebsite: and on the ICSVE website http://www.icsve.orgFollow @AnneSpeckhard

This is the thirteenth discussion in this series of panels discussing ISIS Foreign Fighters and terrorist rehabilitation. The first panel, “Issues of ISIS Prisoners & Repatriations in a Time of COVID,” can be reviewed here. The second panel, “Can an ISIS Terrorist be Rehabilitated and Reintegrated into Society?” featuring Redouan Safdi and Moussa Al-Hassan Diaw, can be reviewed here and the report that was inspired by this panel can be found here. The third panel, “Can We Repatriate the ISIS Children?” can be reviewed here and the report that was inspired by this panel can be found here. The fourth panel, “Terrorist Rehabilitation in the Dutch Prison System,” can be reviewed here. The fifth panel, “Into and Back Out of ISIS: An ISIS Defector Speaks Out,” can be reviewed here. The sixth panel, “Fighting ISIS Online: An Introduction to Breaking the ISIS Brand,” can be viewed here. The seventh panel, “Talking Terrorist Propaganda with a Pro,” can be viewed here. The eighth panel, “Terrorism Prevention, Intervention, and Rehabilitation with Juveniles,” can be viewed here. The ninth panel, “Community-Focused Interventions Against Terrorism,” can be viewed here. The tenth panel, “Are We Losing a Valuable Feminist Project in the Middle East?” can be viewed here. The eleventh panel, “Rescue Me: A Conversation with the Yamout Sisters re Prison Rehabilitation,” can be viewed here. The twelfth panel, “ICSVE and Parallel Networks Team Up to Fight Violent Extremism,” can be viewed here.

Chat Log

07:50:40 From cnavarro13 : Good morning.

07:51:32 From cnavarro13 : Respectfully, Dr. Carmen Navarro, Associate Professor Strategic and Personal Communication 

07:52:31 From cnavarro13 : Liberty University 

08:00:40 From David Hansen : Hello from Norway :)

08:01:13 From ICSVE – Molly Ellenberg : You can watch all of our previous Zoom events here: https://www.icsve.org/news/icsve-events/

08:01:29 From Ivan Humble : Hello All

08:01:47 From ICSVE – Molly Ellenberg : Here is the ICSVE YouTube channel, where you can watch all of our counter narrative videos: https://www.youtube.com/icsve

Here is the ICSVE webpage for the Breaking the ISIS Brand Counter Narrative Project: https://www.icsve.org/project/breaking-the-isis-brand/

08:02:07 From kazhal Hama Rashid : hello from Canada ??

08:02:28 From Ryan Lo’Ree : Hello Everyone from Michigan.

08:02:35 From Acacia Dietz : hello from Detroit =)

08:02:40 From Heidi Maiberg : Greetings from Tartu, Estonia! :)

08:02:46 From Robi Damelin : Hi from Israel

08:02:54 From Vladimir Kačanovski : Hello everyone from Serbia. I wish you a happy and successful New Year .

08:02:59 From Bill – Correctional Service Canada : Hello from Ottawa, Canada!

08:03:35 From Michael Haines : hi all from Scotland

08:03:47 From mariamtokhadze : Hello from Georgia – the country, not the state :)

08:04:01 From Mario Sutantoputra : hi from Indonesia

08:04:02 From Lise-Lotte Carlsson : Hi from Helsinki, Finland 

08:04:20 From H. Colleen Sinclair : Greetings from Mississippi

08:04:24 From Robert Mueck : Hello from Annapolis, Maryland (USA)

08:04:48 From Harjit Sandhu : Thank you, Anne- for putting it so clearly and emphatically once again.

08:04:57 From ICSVE – Molly Ellenberg : You can read all of our reports on our counter narrative campaigns and other topics here: https://www.icsve.org/publications/research-reports/ and here: https://www.icsve.org/publications/brief-reports/

I am also happy to send anyone PDFs of our peer-reviewed articles!

08:05:17 From Oluwasogo Dairo : Greetings from Lagos, Nigeria

08:05:42 From Rod Dubrow-Marshall : Greetings from locked down Wales!

08:05:55 From Thobeka felicia : Greetings from South Africa

08:11:01 From Danilo Gelman : Greetings from the Latin American Jewish Congress

08:13:10 From Michael Haines : Jeff that was great

08:13:29 From Michael Haines : H Ivan

08:13:47 From Michael Haines : Hi figen

08:14:21 From Ivan Humble : Hello

08:21:41 From Dr. Lisa McConnell : What “evidence-type” factors were “good”? I’m curious if the mindset is about goodness, what goodness was produced by the NSM?

08:25:22 From James Marley : @Molly Ellenberg: I’d love to get the peer-reviewed articles, have benefited from reading the reports from ICSVE

08:26:01 From Ryan Lo’Ree : I think it’s a false sense of “good”. You feel happy in the moment because of the Brotherhood or Comradity. You’re never really happy because you’re blind by the inner deep hate you have for others and yourself. Some people like Jeff were blinded by the culture believing that what they were doing was good for humanity. They believed that other races were evil and what they were doing fighting against them was a righteous cause.

08:26:07 From ICSVE – Molly Ellenberg : Hi James — I’ll post the links to the PDFs here!

08:28:50 From ICSVE – Anne Speckhard : Thank you Ryan, people who hate themselves often externalize that hate outward onto others versus work on themselves while they are in such a movement

08:30:13 From ICSVE – Anne Speckhard : Jeff’s story really shows how powerful each and everyone of us is, even when we might be the victims of such groups, our humanity and 

love can totally shake them out of their hateful movements

08:30:56 From Laurence Bergman : He doesn’t seem to acknowledge that he was basically kicked out. It wasn’t taking a noble stance.

08:31:11 From Dete Aliah  : it is very interesting the experience of Jeff that he was already deradicalised while still in the organization, and later disengaged. It is very a new thing I am learning today. 

08:31:52 From ICSVE – Molly Ellenberg : ISIS in Their Own Words: https://scholarcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1791&context=jss

The Effects of Assad’s Atrocities: https://www.icsve.org/the-effects-of-assads-atrocities-and-the-call-to-foreign-fighters-to-come-to-syria-on-the-rise-and-fall-of-the-isis-caliphate/

Jihad is Our Way: https://digitalcommons.macalester.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1226&context=bildhaan

Breaking the ISIS Brand in Europe: https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/26936548.pdf?casa_token=U8xWwu0_3boAAAAA:OErjSapheNDukpeGVaiHM1avzmtUvIzfkRaLpYhmIp0EbQT6H1R2ulSsJMqDHYNFdlpQheeHUy1Pmk6rJsllZrl8XvOmxcfrn5ZnFFOAbLmD6SLHhE1e

Hypertargeting: http://www.librelloph.com/journalofhumansecurity/article/view/johs-16.1.16/461

Anti-ISIS and anti-Western: http://isj.ir/En/index.php/quarterly/item/download/38_ff8b08fd8655077e1b288a4fffccef9b

08:33:30 From Dr. Lisa McConnell : How has your stance affected NSM? Did others follow your lead in leaving?

Anne Speckhard after the event: Jeff’s leaving affected many others.  One that left after him was Acacia Dietz, present in the meeting today.

08:33:48 From Tova Norlen : So if radicalization is primarily driven by identity and not hate, how does the hate survive to then be passed on to new members? Fear is what gives rise to hate, so I am not sure how hate is not involved…

Anne Speckhard after the event: I don’t know if it’s correct to say any one thing is the primary drivers.  There is previous trauma for some, alienation and a need to belong, past prior negative experiences with other hated by the group, fear, and certainly all these groups function to fuse the individual identity with the group and to pass hate for those targeted by the group.

08:33:48 From Sunita Kumar : Thank you for your moving story, Jeff, and for all you are now doing and will be doing going forward

08:34:00 From Ivan Humble : Understand that feeling well Jeff. Respect always bro

Anne Speckhard after the event: Thank Ivan for attending, your testimony is also a powerful one!

08:34:40 From David Hansen : Thanx for sharing, Jeff :) Wish you all the best for the future!

08:34:55 From CSMM : Jeff: That was very powerful, thank you.  What do you think of the work of Life After Hate, and especially the EXIT program as organized in Sweden?  I wish I had been able to interview Jeff when I was writing my book, Healing from Hate. But you were still “in” at the time…

08:35:18 From mariamtokhadze : Thank you Jeff!

08:36:15 From Oluwasogo Dairo : Thank you Jeff! I trust that you will keep getting better and be much more skilful at helping others to de-radicalize

08:36:25 From Sunita Kumar : Leaving is always predicated on there not being a fit with the organization any more and that in itself is noble in its development

Anne Speckhard after the event:Thank you Sunita for those kind and true words.

08:36:47 From Michael Haines : Well spoken Jeff keep it going

08:45:45 From 851165 : Interesting, white supremacists and radical Islam both driven by notions of superiority and a noble cause.

08:46:12 From Harjit Sandhu : Very well spoken Jeff and Daryl. Loved listening to you both. Keep it up!

08:46:16 From Ryan Lo’Ree : Tova I believe hate is definitely a major factor. Hate is what drives right wing extremist groups and the anti government rhetoric. They use the rise of the New World Order to keep members feeling like what they’re doing is righteous. They try to make it less about the hate for the person and more about a cause against evil. Like Jeff said you’re so blinded in the echo chamber that you don’t realize that everything you’re doing is hate driven.

08:46:16 From ICSVE – Anne Speckhard : yes indeed, although deep inside it seems for many there’s a need to feel superior and noble, and there are often deep fears too that are played upon by the group.

08:46:54 From Harjit Sandhu : Supremacism in any form is bad and should be shunned.

08:47:08 From David Hansen : Thanks for sharing, Daryl :) All the best for your future projects!

08:47:21 From Acacia Dietz : Daryl proves that a person has the opportunity to plant seeds of change with each person they meet. You never know who it is that you may come into contact with & you never know what seeds of change you may plant along the way.

08:48:03 From ICSVE – Anne Speckhard : so true Acacia, it shows we all hold power to 

change others by our own actions

08:51:17 From Michael Haines : Jesse I got White Rage read it in less than a week after your recommendation oh my what a book. Life changing.

08:51:49 From Rod Dubrow-Marshall : Thank you so much Jeff, Daryl, Jesse and Anne! I have a question – the feeling of righteousness in extremist groups and cults seems to reside in how the ideology becomes self-referential and a core part of your identity – I speak as a former far left extremist group member – it feels good because it means everything to you at the time. You are not doing things for the group but for yourself. Does that sound right to you? In that case then de-identification is rightly becoming the focus of de-radicalisation programs and as a psychologist I feel we need better ways of measuring extent of identity.

08:51:53 From Arie Kruglanski : a question to Jeff, what prompted him to leave home as a young boy to begin with

08:51:57 From Oluwasogo Dairo : Thank you Daryl, your patriotism is inspiring especially in Nigeria where most of my fellow southerners don’t believe in  de-radicalization of Boko Haram Jihadists

08:52:47 From James Marley : @Michael Haines, yes, White Rage is a powerful read

08:53:45 From CSMM : A useful resource for those on the call:  https://mediaed.wistia.com/medias/w7l5wa16g6?goal=0_8555fd0625-481556d80b-393392869&mc_cid=481556d80b&mc_eid=d5963e509e

08:54:09 From Rod Dubrow-Marshall : I should add that I have been developing measures of extent of identity (based on principles in Self Categorization Theory) but I think more needs to be done including in developing such instruments with former members of violent extremist groups. Thanks!

08:54:52 From Dr. Lisa McConnell : Most societal solutions tend to be rehabilitative rather than preventative. What prevention efforts would have kept you from these radical ideologies, groups, and systems?

08:55:17 From Figen Murray : Rod, that is a great question you ask and I will be interested in the answer.  When my son was killed as one of 22 people in 2017 I forgave the terrorist who did what he did. He was so very young but I felt as he crossed a bridge to go into the building before detonating his bomb he strongly believed in whatever cause he believed in. I guess terrorists are completely of the belief that what they are doing is the right thing. 

08:56:07 From Tova Norlen : It takes a network to defeat a network…

08:56:29 From Laurence Bergman : There has to be some reparation before jumping back into “normal” society. At least the one gentleman spent some time in prison, but Jeff hasn’t. Saying, “Oh, sorry”, isn’t enough.

08:56:52 From James Marley : As a social worker/family therapy, I’m struck by the early childhood/family trauma narrative. Know it doesn’t apply to all, but it is important

08:59:33 From cnavarro13 : Mr. Schoep and Mr. Morton are to be commended for sharing their traumatic experiences and helping others de-radicalize. 

09:01:02 From 851165 : Jesse – is  there a radical Sufism that supported radical Islam?

09:01:24 From Figen Murray : Thank you to all the speakers who not only were incredibly honest but also they give hope.

09:01:48 From Rabba (Rabbi) R. Karpov, Ph.D. : Yes. Thank you very much for all of this.

09:01:51 From Ryan Lo’Ree : Thank you all for sharing!

09:04:29 From CSMM : Have to leave, thank you very much for hosting this!

09:05:10 From Harjit Sandhu : May be Left Wing Extremism could be a topic for a future discussion. India has been facing a lot of LWE.

09:05:30 From Ivan Humble : Got to go now, Dinner duties joys of being a single dad lol Great event respect to all the speakers and everyone who put this event together

09:06:10 From 851165 : Daryl – what was the response when you questioned  the use of the bible by the KKK leader to justify their beliefs?

Anne Speckhard after the event: Daryl describes a bit of that in the previous session we held in which he also spoke it’s here https://www.icsve.org/icsve-and-parallel-networks-team-up-to-fight-violent-extremism/

09:06:13 From Thobeka felicia : How can Youth get involved in organisations such as ICSVE? I find that most organisations are extremely exclusive and closed off to individuals who have experience “on paper”. People want to get involved but mentorship and memberships aren’t offered, people aren’t able to contribute as they should when it comes to these matters

09:06:47 From Ryan Lo’Ree : Thats a great question Thobeka.

Anne Speckhard after the event: As we build what Jesse refers to as Parallel Networks we would love to have compassionate and talented youth involved.

09:07:26 From Laurence Bergman : I have to go shortly. I have no mic or can on this computer, but fyi I’ve also tracked these groups for years and am the child of a holocaust survivor. I used to live in Michigan and once NSM made fun of my father while speaking at an event. And frankly, look, Jeff still dresses the same. Proud Boys are the main groups now in terms of influence.

09:08:08 From Laura Jacques : Thanks a lot for Jeff, David and Jesse for your testimonies, this is so helpful for practitioners and researchers to understand from “the inside” what actually individuals felt and thought during their times in the movements. What are the support (in any kinds) would have helped you the best to disengaged and deradicalised earlier? (most important activities/support needs in an Exit programme according to you three)

09:08:14 From cnavarro13 : What can be done or is being done during the pandemic, COVID-19 to de-radicalize individuals via social media? 

Anne Speckhard after the event:  We run Facebook and Instagram campaigns nonstop in many countries over the world with our Breaking the ISIS Brand Counter Narrative Videos and will be doing the same with the Stop Hate ones featuring white supremacists who have walked away.

09:08:34 From Laurence Bergman : I do encourage him to continue though

09:08:45 From Robi Damelin : To Jeff.  Would you consider interacting with those people you recruited and maybe even apologizing?

09:10:14 From Dr. Lisa McConnell : Jeff, you mentioned you thought NSM had goodness. Can you speak to NSM actions that led to something good? What were the mission elements that produced good? 

09:10:18 From Banafshe Hejazi : Thank you very much, all. What are the main challenges you see in Deradicalization efforts in today’s digitalized world and the role of social media platforms in mobilizing extremists?

09:10:30 From Figen Murray : The UK is doing a lot in terms of deradicalization during Covid 19.  Young people are very vulnerable at the moment as they are spending so much time online. not necessarily by choice. But terrorist recruiters are very very active at the moment as they have rich pickings.  The UK launched an app called ACTEarly so that people know what to do if they are worried about someone becoming radicalised.

09:10:36 From Amanda : Young men in particular will find their own initiations into “adulthood” without good guidance. Traditional societies have known this for millennia and have highly structured rights of passage, we’ve largely lost this in modern societies. For more on this eg. https://ritesofpassageinstitute.org/

09:10:51 From Oluwasogo Dairo : Thank you Anne!

Thank you all.

I have to go.

I have learnt.

I will be glad to be part of this again.

Please stay safe and observe Covid-19 Safety regulations. 

Hopefully we will get safer in our world.

THERE IS HOPE!

09:10:56 From Bill – Correctional Service Canada : Thanks for this very helpful session. Unfortunately, I need to leave in a few moments.  Wishing everyone a very Happy New Year!

09:10:57 From Laurence Bergman : Good luck to you Jeff

09:11:35 From susan turley : Do any of you see connections between cultism and the US Army? I ask, for one reason, which is personal because my son joined the Army and died by suicide during active duty.

Anne Speckhard after the event: I’m so sorry about your son.  Not sure if I posed your question correctly but these groups definitely recruit among military, active duty and not.  I think the suicide rate in the US military including vets is 22/day or was that high for awhile.  It’s a rarely one thing but a combination of things including PTSD, treatment relying on psychotropic drugs that have not been well tested before in combinations, stigmatization, and prior mental health issues and vulnerabilities, among other things.

09:12:54 From susan turley : Sorry don’t know how to get question to presenters. Can anyone help to do so?

09:13:09 From 851165 : It would be interesting to know what Jeff and Ryan think of Mr Trump’s stirring of the White Supremacist pot.

09:13:52 From Harjit Sandhu : So sad to hear about your son, Susan. I am from uniformed armed forces and I know there have been suicides due to various reasons.

09:14:10 From Ryan Lo’Ree : I believe true leaders speak of hope and unity. They don’t intentionally cause division. In my opinion that is not leadership.

09:14:14 From susan turley : Thank you, I meant to send that to the speakers but can’t figure out how. Yes, Harjit – 22/day

09:14:28 From Figen Murray : Sorry to hear that Susan. My condolences. I hope there is time to address your question. 

09:14:37 From Herman Cohen : What is the strategy of the NSM for taking power?

09:15:30 From James Marley : Thank you to all the speakers and event organizers, really appreciated hearing the discussions. Have to leave for another meeting. Take care all. 

09:16:40 From Michael Haines : agreed

09:16:43 From Dr. Lisa McConnell : Could the panelists address thoughts on prevention? Were there any preventative measures that may have kept them from adopting radical ideologies, groups, or systems? 

09:19:31 From Rabba (Rabbi) R. Karpov, Ph.D. : That’s also post-Gulf War.

09:20:48 From Tova Norlen : I am blown away by the intelligence and perspective of these two speakers. I feel that it’s easier to go through this process if you are able to process these thoughts as well as they can. There may be many “followers” in the movements who are not necessarily as “intellectually capable” or educated (I hope that didn’t sound belittling…). How do you convince them? And I am especially thinking about some of the movements today based on conspiracies, such as QAnon.

Anne Speckhard after the event: That’s where the smarts of these formers and now interveners can be very powerful.  They’ve been inside, understand the mentality and are smart enough to take it apart.

09:21:13 From ICSVE – Molly Ellenberg : Question from Besir Wrayet: Jeff Thank you and congratulations for your courage. Jeff you’ve mentioned you were de-radicalizing as you were engaged, did you face any hostilities and any individuals who have seen you as role-model?

Anne Speckhard after the event: Jeff told me that he faced many challenges, disbelief from some, and warnings that his life would be ruined if he left, particularly as his business was wrapped up in the movement.

09:21:39 From Sandra Moyer Parallel Networks : Jeff, “Other than honorable”? (referring to discharge)

09:22:35 From Michael Haines : it is school visits and the personal experiences that matter

09:22:51 From susan turley : thank you, sm healy. I will contact you.

09:23:11 From Michael Haines : GAU has spoken with 100k people so far

09:23:52 From Ryan Lo’Ree : I watched two recruits out of Virginia receive a court martial for belonging to a hate group. Yes other than honorable. Or less than.

09:23:58 From susan turley : Smhealy – You can reach me at susanturley1978@yahoo.com

09:24:08 From Michael Haines : I have seen the students connect with the speakers, people like Figen Murray and Ivan here

09:25:07 From Michael Haines : Daryl that is the way we reach our youth

09:25:11 From Dr. Lisa McConnell : I love it – kudos to Jersey!

09:25:17 From Rabba (Rabbi) R. Karpov, Ph.D. : My 3rd-grade teacher taught a wonderful unit on Germans and life in Germany that was instrumental in countering the toxic group-vilifying that I’d heard at home. I think we need more of that, given how German-ness (and now Whiteness in general) has been demonized in US culture in general, post-WWII.

09:25:36 From Figen Murray : Mike, you have spoken to so many young people and you have a few years headstart from me. And I am so glad people like Daryl doing this in the States as well is so great! It gives me hope.

09:25:54 From Azad Deewanee, PhD : This great job! The role of speakers and ICSVE is appreciated! 

09:26:05 From Dr. Lisa McConnell : I agree – home is the first line of education. 

09:26:08 From Rabba (Rabbi) R. Karpov, Ph.D. : Yes, hear hear!

09:26:46 From Figen Murray : I so agree with you, Daryl.

09:27:14 From Gary Dunnagan : Well said Daryl. I could not agree more.

09:27:27 From Michael Haines : Figen it is never the numbers that count it is that one student you may never know about who you have helped to change

09:27:37 From susan turley : Excellent presentation by everyone. These stories need more exposure so all can hear these, especially now.

09:28:15 From Figen Murray : I know, Mike. Even if each one of us manage to stop one child in their tracks, that is a massive success.

09:28:36 From Acacia Dietz : very true Mike and Figen.

09:29:03 From Michael Haines : it is the promise of this group and others that encourage us all

09:29:09 From Amanda : Thanks so much Jeff for your honesty,  insights, generosity and courage, and Daryl Davis and Jesse Morton ? Best wishes to everyone!

09:29:29 From Michael Haines : we are many voices and together we make a choir

09:29:32 From justinfeltman : Thank you all for this conversation. Really incredible!

09:29:42 From Harjit Sandhu : Thank you Anne and the speakers. Excellent session indeed.

09:29:51 From cnavarro13 : Very well said, Figen Murray.

09:29:57 From David Hansen : Thanks a lot for today – great session! Have to run; have 3 cats and 2 kids – they all need Food :) Take care and stay safe, everyone :)

09:30:05 From Figen Murray : Thank you Anne, Molly and the team as well as all speakers for this excellent session.

09:30:09 From Dr. Lisa McConnell : Cheers to that!

09:30:14 From cnavarro13 : Thank you, Anne and all of the speakers. 

09:30:24 From Michael Haines : agreed thanks everyone

09:30:28 From Heidi Maiberg : Thank you all, it was very useful!

09:30:28 From Acacia Dietz : Thank you for doing this webinar ;) it was great listening to everyone :)

09:30:29 From Jeffrey Allan : Thank you Anne for arranging this excellent discussion.

09:30:36 From Rod Dubrow-Marshall : Thanks so much everyone it was a great discussion!

09:30:38 From Tova Norlen : Thank you all for this – very insightful!

09:30:40 From Katie Passey : Thanks to all those involved – truly informative!

09:30:42 From 851165 : Excellent

09:30:45 From Gary Dunnagan : Excellent – as always. Thank you to everyone.

09:31:00 From Acacia Dietz : https://beyondbarriersusa.org

09:31:05 From Acacia Dietz : https://jeffschoep.com

Anne Speckhard after the event: See the links above to reach Jeff Schoep and his new organization Beyond Barriers USA.  Thank you to everyone who attended and participated!  Hopefully we’ll see even more good coming from Jeff, Jesse and Daryl!